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Ali Afroz's avatar

Doesn’t your argument that you don’t know the physical substance is necessary. Prove too much. You can use pretty much the same argument to argue that the exact atoms in your brain are necessary for consciousness and there is no fact of the matter whether other people experience pain, which is obviously nonsense. To me, the reason why the functional properties matter is because if somebody is running a simulation of my brain, the process causing that simulation to talk about its painful experiences is the same process. Whereas in the case of the typewriter, the process is completely different, so there’s no reason to assume that it’s caused by the same experience. I also think it’s just obvious that the properties of experiences are an actual thing out there. It’s not just a matter of perspective as to whether your experience of vision is three-dimensional or not that is simply a matter about the experiences you have access to. That doesn’t mean you can’t define things such that digital minds don’t experience pain, but that’s because you’re using a definition that doesn’t correspond to what people normally mean as it doesn’t actually track the feeling. Certainly, whether an experience has negative valence intuitively appears obviously unrelated to substance. It’s about things like whether you intrinsically want to avoid the experience. Also, any good account of pain has to be closaly related to motives. Otherwise, we end up with the old psychophysical problem that it looks like it’s a massive coincidence that what things motivate us or so often the things that make us happy while the things we try to avoid are generally things which make us painful after all if positive and negative valence has nothing to do with motivations it would be equally likely for us to actually be motivated to increase pain and decrease happiness.

comex's avatar

In law, the need to apply old laws to new technologies often results in ridiculous-seeming analogies. On Monday in Supreme Court oral argument, one of the lawyers used the made-up phrase “virtual private papers” to refer to Google Location History records, in the context of the Fourth Amendment guarantee against “unreasonable searches and seizures” of “papers”. Later this year the Supreme Court will consider how the phrase “goods or services from a video tape service provider” applies to websites. Copyright law treats software as a type of “literary work”. I could go on.

These analogies are messy and subjective, but we need to make them anyway. The law is the law and we have to figure out how to apply it, even in situations the law’s authors never considered. The only alternative would be to just not apply the law to new technology, and that would be bad.

I believe that morality is similar. The “law” we follow is our moral intuition, derived from biological and social evolution. The idea that there should be an objective standard of consciousness is a philosophical “technology” that postdates almost all of that evolution. AI will be a literal technology that postdates it. Our moral law simply doesn’t address those technologies, but we’re forced to apply it to them anyway. We have to make an analogy: is a digital brain more like a human brain, or more like a digital not-brain? There is no objectively correct answer. It’s just a question of which option feels the most reasonable, the least icky.

For me that’s the functional approach. But I think that your trilemma is real, and that the true statement is number 3, “Pain cannot be defined by ostension.” If one asks “in virtue of what is that state pain?”, you could say you mean the functional state or the physical state; but if you haven’t decided, then no amount of pointing will help.

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